Definitely Not AI: in conversation with Dion Bal

Dion’s work is like a 2000s music video dance-off: It’s campy and totally maxed-out – all about bodies, fashion, fantasy, and serving cunt. He’s sweet as a cherry, but with a sharp tongue when it counts, and never not right. The rhinestones in his ears glint under our office TL lights, and his smile flashes with a single silver tooth. He’s a delight to talk to – Dutchly direct, funny, and full of associations that go from Cardin to Christina Aguilera in one breath. His work is instantly recognisable: hyperreal, hyperglam, and hyperglossy, all crafted on set before being elevated in post-production.
Dion likes things to be real, which might sound contradictory when his work features Alien showgirls dipped in glitter, Alice in Wonderland type-mazes, and other ultra-synthetic elements, but to him, that’s the point. The magic is in the making. He’s shot multiple covers for Glamcult (i.e. Naomi Sharon on a horse, and Shinto, the gap-toothed bikini model in the tanning salon), so we know he’s capable of delivering perfection. Which makes us want to poke at the soft underbelly, his petty habits, contradictions, cringe obsessions, and aesthetic icks: he’s a hater of greenscreens, cheap clients, and bad shoes; a lover of hypersexualised music videos, Lady Gaga, call girls, and fishermen proudly clutching limp carps. And of course, we talked about the challenge of crafting images so surreal, so post-human, they get mistaken for being AI-generated.

Hi Dion, first off, how are you today?
I’m good. I’m holding on. No, I’m actually stable.  

Aw, he says with teary eyes… So, to switch topic to your work, it’s hyper-glam, it’s glossy, it’s high-definition to the point that people lately think it might be AI. Do you feel like it’s a compliment, or sort of an existential crisis?
It’s a little bit of both. This take is maybe a little bit dramatic, but it feels… Like an insult to the craft, or something? In a way, it’s a compliment, because it means that my retouching is very high level… Obviously, I’m not going to pretend all that you see is organic. 

But you put in the work to make something from scratch…
Yeah, because I like to create a fantasy in real life, and then capture it. For me, it’s never been like, oh, I’m going to put some bitch in front of a green screen, and… You know what I mean?

Yeah. (Lols).
Can’t I say that?

You can!
If you’re going to laugh, I can’t. Anyway, I don’t want to do that. I want to create it on set. Everything you see, whether it’s body paint or if it’s the environments… I think that’s the magic. If everyone puts in the work, that’s, for me, creating art. But these days, when commercial clients that have money are going to put people in front of a green screen, or digitally manipulate everything, then you lose a lot of magic. I feel like you always feel it in an image if it’s real.

What’s the biggest ick you have in an AI-generated image?
Maybe in 2030 it’s completely different. But at this point, in 2025… I think it’s always kind of the same image. Like it’s always glossy. But a little too glossy. It’s not imperfect enough, or it’s not human enough. And you see a sort of flatness between the model and the camera. Nobody has fooled me yet. 

Or you don’t know that you’ve been fooled.
That’s …true.

Do you ever intentionally leave things sort of imperfect just to remind people that it’s not AI?
When I started, I would really make it super perfect. Because I like perfection. And I like glam. And since AI became bigger, I’ve been leaving more imperfections.
What also comes with technology, besides AI and social media, is that everyone takes inspiration from the same inspiration pages on Instagram and Pinterest. You always see the same references from the 90s. And I was like, okay, let me actually go to the artefacts. So I’m hoarding like 90s, 2000s magazines. Not only the Vogues, but also the niche magazines. When I was browsing, I was like… This is all glam, but you could see imperfections. There’s a little shadow here and there. There’s beauty in seeing that it’s real, and in imperfection. Even though it’s the smallest things. And now, because of AI, I’m also really like… I have to leave these things that I would normally take out. Because AI wouldn’t (yet).

So now you’re exploring the limits of your pursuit of perfection, figuring out which imperfections you can live with?
Yes. Sometimes, even though there’s one perfect image, I’m trying to go for the one that’s a little less perfect. But then I retouch it. I make it glam. I think that’s the contrast. And that’s also what I want to look for more. Glam on glam on glam is not interesting anymore. 

So maybe eventually… Like when you’re 80, you’ll become a documentary photographer.
I see the vision… Like, completely raw. Maybe in World War III, that’s my way out of the military. There is this documentary photographer, Elaine Constantine, I think it’s the 90s, beginning of the 2000s. And she’s amazing. She shot that album cover for Moloko. And while she’s actually a documentary photographer, her work is so glam, and that’s so interesting to me. That’s where I’m trying to head with my work, too. I try to work with more real people combined with models. Like the Jaded London thing I did, we used a ‘real’ dealer for the poker. To make it a little less polished. Because I found my way to shoot glam, so now it doesn’t matter who I capture.

Do you remember your very first fashion-related memory? Or maybe a better question is, even the first time you realise you’re aiming for this extreme perfection?
I’ve always been interested in imagery. It definitely started with all the music video’s I watched as a kid, from when I was literally three. I think the first thing that really stayed with me was the David LaChapelle video from Dirrty, from Christina Aguilera. And also Jonas Åkerlund. I was always obsessed with his videos. Not that I knew that it was them, because I was just obsessed with the videos. MTV and music videos were my first way of loving imagery and fashion. It was all very fashionable. But it’s funny how you later find out, because now I’m still obsessed with David LaChapelle. Now I know about his work, but back then I had no clue obviously. So I’ve always had the same taste. That perfection stuff came later. Trauma. Haha.

I read this thing about this 20-year cycle thing. And that it makes sense. That basically around your 30s, you start realising that the things that you were into when you were 10 were the most influential because you had never seen anything else before. And you’re like, whoa, this is like the most impressive thing of all time. And then it comes into this period where the beauty gets overshadowed by you being cringed out by your 12 y/o self, and then around your 20s or 30s, you realise that that was like the first beginnings of your taste.
I love it, and it’s still so much of my style. I always embraced it. The Alice in Wonderland-like shoot I did recently was actually inspired by Gwen Stefani’s What You Waiting For music video. When Lady Gaga came out too, I was obsessed. Not only because of the music, but because of the videos, the way she was always performing. Even if she was running out of hotels, she was performing, and it was camp. And then for a while, I always thought camp was like something negative, but I fully embraced that I like camp now. It’s just what it is.

Her video for Born This Way, where she had on all these prosthetics and was giving birth to good and evil, really influenced me.
Oh, with Nick Knight. That was Nick Knight!

Really? Oh, that makes sense. Looking back, it couldn’t have been some random dude doing this.
I had this once too, it’s one of my favourite things I found out, actually. We would go to the South of France when I was younger. And I remember seeing this crazy house, and I was so obsessed with the house, I always asked my dad if he could record it with his video camera so I could look back at the vacation video and look back at it. And then later I found out that that was the Pierre Cardin house. Which I’m still obsessed with. But I was like, I was nearly six.

I love finding out stuff you loved was made by a significant artist, and that you actually had pretty good taste back then.
I had no clue. I would always say, Oh, I want to go to the bubble house, was what I called it. So what you say, the 20-year cycle, I really recognise. 

So your work is often camp. How do you define camp for yourself, and where else do you feel like that lives or comes out in your life?
Camp is a feeling. I can never pinpoint what it is. Like Café Nol in the Jordaan is camp. It’s not fashion, but it’s so camp. You know what I mean? It also has some darkness to it, usually. Or some contradiction. When you see a Vegas showgirl, or when you go to Moulin Rouge, it’s so showy. But backstage… Feet are broken. Corsets are bleeding. And that’s interesting to me. And that’s also what I try to capture in my work.

Like a sort of secret horror movie behind this glam…
The substance? Fucking camp. I mean, that’s obviously camp, the way it’s shot. But that’s maybe my version of camp.

You’ve built a strong visual voice, but also have a bold way of communicating visually and interpersonally. Working with you always includes eye rolls and ranty voice memos. Where does this confrontational energy come from?
Okay, I’m just being exposed here, but it’s fine. I would say it all comes from passion… Or am I defending myself now? Because this mainly comes out in my work, and I’m really not insecure about my work. In person, I think I’m much less like this. I mean, I’m still confrontational. I will always be confrontational because I just like to rip off the band-aid. And also vice versa. If there’s a problem with me, just say it. On set, I like direct communication. It shouldn’t be rude. But direct is often described as rude, which I don’t think it has to be. I want to get my vision across. I’m usually direct to my own team. These days, you don’t have a week for an editorial. You have eight hours, so we need to get the job done. 

Do you wish more people were this direct and honest?
I like that. I’m all for collaboration. But if I sense that you don’t know what you want… Then I’m taking over. Because we don’t have time.

You’re a Pisces, right? Do you feel like that represents you?
Yes. As a person, yes. But work-wise… I’m a Virgo rising. And I’m a Taurus moon. I think that shows on set. I think my Pisces is always coming out after my day on set. Where I’m like… Was I too this? Or was I too that? Then I get sensitive.

And probably the fantasy up front.
I mean, the fantasy is all Pisces. A bit Taurus, but… But the dreamy… That’s so Pisces. I have three Aquarius planets in my fifth house. I read about it once. That’s also a crazy combo for creative people.  

Crazy. Well, you’re in luck. Also, you’re known for shooting people who don’t always fit the conventional fashion world, as well. Your idea of beauty feels both specific and expansive. What’s your current obsession with, in terms of beauty?
So I’m currently looking for more imperfections. Or you shouldn’t call it imperfections. A wider range of beauty, just real people. That’s interesting to me now. That’s where the documentary part comes from, as well. And preferably a combination of someone who’s a classified model and someone who’s not. And combine the two, I think that’s… A really big fantasy world.

It exaggerates each other. How much responsibility do you think a photographer has in shifting beauty standards?
I think it’s so much bigger than the photographer. I mean, okay. I’d have to say, sometimes there are shoots where I got presented this whole white cast of models, where I’m like, let’s make it completely diverse. So in that way, the photographer has a responsibility. But at the same time, if there are photographers who don’t want to do that, then that’s also their own choice. I feel like we have to respect everyone’s artistry as long as it’s not problematic.
Unless it trickles down to personal things and whatever. And it’s not only about colour, it’s also about queer people, it’s about everyone. Representation is very important, but I don’t feel like you can blame one person for it, it’s usually much bigger than that. Even in fashion, because I’m very aware that in fashion, you’re much more responsible than anywhere else. 

Why do you feel that?
Fashion imagery will reach a really big group, not just the art-lovers you reach with other types of photography, and that makes it more influential. In personal work, I feel like everyone has to be free, whatever story they want to tell. As long as it’s not problematic.  

And your aesthetic, again, high-gloss, hyper-glam, but also proudly post-produced. Does that progressive idea of beauty ever conflict with the post-production?
I have my own perception of what I think is perfect and glam. That’s the retouch part. What I like to do is find individuals that might not be considered whatever the norm is, and present them in their most powerful and glam way. I feel like that’s where I don’t think it’s conflicting, because I’m trying to put them on that pedestal. And I’ve had that from the beginning. I think that also comes from a place of love and care, also for myself. I mean, I’ve also been super insecure about being gay. You feel different, you feel exposed, it’s crazy.

And especially when there’s this high-tech camera really close to your pores.
Yes! I think I’m projecting that perfection and my own insecurity on them. But in the end, I want to show you how beautiful you are.

Do you have any takes on AI models?
To me, that’s insanity. There are people all over the world who you can book. It’s not that AI can create something that a person cannot be. Just why? I honestly don’t get it. 

And what if it’s an existing model that has an AI version of herself that she sells? You know, like H&M had these AI digital versions of the model.
I think that’s capitalism and lazy. Sorry. Fuck that. I don’t like that. People don’t want to work these days. Get your ass up and work. In Kim K’s words.

Get the bag, but not this way.
You already get a shitload of money anyway. Take the plane. Be in your fancy hotel. I mean, if it’s just once for a marketing stunt, I get it. But if that becomes something regular, that would be sad.. Also, and I think that’s what every creative says now, you’re taking a lot of work out of peoples hands. I think the magic goes away. And you already see that people are starting to prefer realness. I saw this thing on Stylenotcom. “This was not made with AI. It was all real. The models were really there in the forest.” And I was like, No shit, Sherlock. But the fact that they’re already advocating “it’s real” is crazy to me.  That’s my whole take on AI, actually. It just takes away the magic.  And maybe people who use AI and CGI work… They probably work fucking hard. And ofcourse sometimes it’s needed.. But for me, replacing everything that can be done by humans is not magic anymore.

Shifting to lighter subjects – what’s the first thing you look at when you walk into someone’s house?
This might be really weird, but their shoes. 

That’s not weird, right? Or do you have a weird fetish?
No. Which wouldn’t even be weird. Let’s be inclusive.

Sorry for calling that weird. Is it about whether the shoes are dirty?
It’s not only about whether they’re clean. Just if they’re… Nice. But this is more when you’re dating, you know? My friends, I don’t care what shoes they wear. For shoes, it’s not only whether they’re considered fashionable, but also the way they are… Maintained. All kinds of dirty, ugly, stacked-up shoes…

So you do care if they’re dirty.
Yeah, I like my hygiene.

Does that also mean that you only display your nicest shoes?
I only have nice shoes.

Okay.
Or maybe I should have just said, “Oh, I look at their art, I look at their interior.” 

That would have been bull. Which shoe is a red flag?
I’ve never come across red flag shoes. Because I would say Havaianas, but I’m wearing them myself now because they’re kind of back.

The toes are out, baby. What’s your current shoe obsession?
Terra boots. I wear those a lot. But I’m more obsessed with my new Balenciaga bag. She’s amazing. And it’s also, I think, my first designer bag I bought. 

Nice. What’s a very you-object you own in your house?
I have this chair, plastic, like fully see-through, plexiglass, with white leather. It looks straight out of a Y2K porn set. And I have had it for years, and it’s still timeless. And I always call it the sex chair. But you don’t have to put that in there, by the way, I just said that to you. 

It’s a bit sharp for a sex chair, no?
There indeed hasn’t been a lot of sex on it. Some sex.  

Is there something completely dumb or cringy that inspires you right now? It can be a TikTok, a neighbour’s dog, a perfume bottle, a meme, a WhatsApp sticker.
Well, obsessed is dramatic, but I’ve done a deep dive into call girls. Like the telephone sex girls you used to have on TV late at night. I don’t think it really exists anymore, or only on OnlyFans.

I’m so sure it exists. I think it’s a gateway for a lot of people to get out of the accusation of cheating, but it’s definitely more than just watching porn, to me at least.
Oh, that’s interesting. I never really thought about that. I just assumed it was a ’90s thing. I was researching the cringe version, like the after midnight commercials you secretly watched when you were younger.. I also had a fun recreating these Tinderguys who pose with the fish they just caught. I had this beautiful model holding a fish with her thumbs-up. I’m intrigued why that’s still a thing amongst guys?

Immediately no.
I mean… If someone’s really hot and you’re holding a fish, you can hold my fish. 

But only if it’s shot by you. Not when they actually caught the fish.
But I think that’s also funny. If that’s your hobby, then that’s…

Can you imagine sitting in a boat, having to respond to, “Look at the fish I just caught, Dion!”
No, true. No, no, no. Actually, no.

As a vegetarian? No.
Oh, I’m so sorry. I was just going to the butcher after this. I’m going to get a roast beef sandwich.