Earl Sweatshirt

for Glamcult #143, the DEEPREAL issue

From breaking out at sixteen in the digital chaos of Odd Future to finding his footing in fatherhood, Thebe Neruda Kgositsile, better known as Earl Sweatshirt, has lived more lives than most. His trajectory has been a tug-of-war between retreat and revelation, between the cult-rap myth he became and the man emerging from the aftermath of it all.

 His latest project, Live Laugh Love (a title that’s quite hard to take seriously at first), sits at that intersection — a record about getting your shit together without disowning the fracture lines that shaped you. Earl carries a wisdom which feels earned, filtered through a lack of self-seriousness — the most genuine vessel that makes said wisdom so resonant. Behind the satirical surface of the blank-behind-the-eyes, Karen-bob-shaped affirmation, Live Laugh Love  is a message of hope that is “dripping, bleeding, farting.”

 Earl’s work has always felt like an offering. Each word becomes a sigil, scattered in a hopscotching rhythmic pattern, laid bare to be decoded privately. It’s poetry shaped by the era of overstimulation, precise and double-barreled, with every line being a deliberate strike. He also does his homework: a walking bibliography of rap, jazz, and Black radical tradition, forever pulling from the collective archive of human thought to build a kind of eternal cipher.

 “To each birth is blood,” Earl’s mother once told him. She was talking about his music, but it fits this interview, too — three cancellations, failed calls, and a slow, careful chipping away at his stoic exterior. When we finally connect, he’s in a car cruising through LA, the sun slick against his face. He’s warm, unguarded, a chaotic thinker and an open book, a comedian and a thesaurus. We talk about the resurgence of brick phones, the evil lurking in comment sections, and how the most annoying people often hide behind the title of ‘philosopher’ (him included).

Hey! How are you, what’s been up?
Well, I’ve been working nonstop. It’s a blessing.

What are you working on?
Music. And I’ve been writing down all of the weird, loose ideas I have for a sketch or a scene or something. I’m thinking about filming stuff. It’s in its least convoluted stage because I’m just writing ideas down. It’s always the most cathartic part of a creative endeavour because it’s not even creative yet.

Isn’t that also a valid definition of what being creative is, just writing things down out of nowhere?
Yeah, but I also need that pressure on me to commit to the long form versus writing loose bars down throughout the day. Both are good, but having that expectation corners me into seeing my full thought.

You mentioned the idea of writing in circles, which I really love. Is that connected to what you’re saying now, about seeing the thought in full?
Absolutely. Doing music for myself is like a divination practice. There’s a certain amount of physical objects and possibilities that god can speak to you through, and you’re able to discern what’s being said within that frame of restrictions. There’s an X amount of like, power cells, you know what I mean? And if they’re flipped this way, or if they fall in this pattern… I think it’s what I try to do with music. It’s only slightly different from surrealist poetry or freestyling. As you see, in real life, it takes me a long time to figure out what I’m trying to say. Music gives me a chance to actually say what I mean.

Do you ever feel restricted by words?
Oh, bro. Absolutely. I feel fucking crazy because I should be multilingual. I only speak English, but you can have fun with it and break it down to a weird language. You can do whatever you want with it. They did whatever they wanted when they created it. I’ve probably said it before, but to try to describe a tree, you can do it by either counting the number of leaves that it has, or by its beauty.

There is definitely a freedom in reconstructing language under your own command. Still, do you ever feel like a little part of a sentiment gets lost?
Sometimes I do. Sometimes I find a way to get everything I want in there. I feel like the truth is always a composite, a balance point between multiple perspectives. What gets lost is supposed to get lost, even if I don’t want that. Some things hide themselves, no matter if you say them as plain as day to people. They come with a Harry Potter invisibility cloak on.

People have to find those things for themselves.
Yeah. I’m a guy who found whatever out throughout my 20s and was like, “Guys, everyone, stop what you’re doing. Because I just found this thing out. And so now we’re going to be done with the squalor and pain because I just found out this shit.” But they have to find it themselves. Everyone’s on their journey.

One of the funnest parts of preparing for this interview was spending hours on Genius, looking up breakdowns of your lyrics from people. Have you ever done that? The way people find things in your words is so interesting.
I haven’t. I grew up using A to Z Lyrics. They didn’t tell me what nothing meant. They would just put that motherfucking list straight down the middle of the page like that. I was really anti-Genius when it came out. I don’t think I ever opened it.

Well, you’re missing out.
What do they have on there?

You should check it out. Like we were saying, find out for yourself. But, for example, on FORGE, there is a line where you say ‘heavy measure’, and then a user said it can be heard as ‘heavy metal’ in connection to the process of forging and creating.
Yeah, you’re right. I should go check that out. That’s so fucking tight.

Was that your intention?
No, but that’s what I mean about the divination process. If you’re just honest, then you get to go back and see why. That one’s so cool. Are there more?

I need to look it up, give me a sec. A user dissects the line ‘decorated peripherals’ on gsw vs sac. “It’s a highly layered metaphor. The first layer refers to the fact that Earl has been wearing prescription glasses since his late 20s.”
Yo…

“On another level, he is saying he has award-winning peripherals, much like a decorated soldier who has been awarded for outstanding performance — the ‘peripherals’ referring to his ability to sense plots against him. This line is also reminiscent of ‘scanning’, a behaviour exhibited by highly-skilled footballers, who habitually check their peripheries. This sets up the other football metaphors he makes use of later in the verse.”
Damn. They got some of it. But that’s fire. I love it. Like, put me on to what I say?

Maybe not on Genius, but do you look at the interpretations of your lyrics anywhere else?
The deepest I’ll go is like YouTube. I get in there and then immediately get out. I always feel crazy. Comments are still comments. I really try not to go through comment sections that are about me.

Are you not curious?
I am SO curious. It’s the lowest-hanging fruit of all time. Like, “Here’s a whole bunch of new information about yourself.” I don’t want to do it. It’s lessening the quality of my days since I put the app back on my phone. You come out of there with this hurting. And then, in the middle of some argument, in your own head, you’ll remember this one dude saying this about this thing…

I can imagine how that can get to you in the ugliest moments. At the same time, there is also so much love and admiration for your work online. You must also feel that side of it.
Yeah, I do, every day. It is literally the greatest gift to look up after what has been, at times, heartbreaking and horrifying. To know that people are taking away from my art what I want them to take away. I’m so grateful these days. We were alive, bro. I’m 31. It’s seeing enough of your grandparents and friends die and shit. How many n── don’t even get to be alive for their fucking beard to connect? I’m thankful to everyone who is literally just out here trying to figure this shit out and not fucking ruin a bunch of people. It’s about soothing people’s maladies that are real as fuck right now. It’s not about the WWE way anymore, of who is the king of the thing. It’s like, help somebody. That’s it. Whenever I have the emotional bandwidth, I want people to leave interactions with me and be like, “Damn, it feels a little better.” If you have the privilege to not be hostile, to not be defensive, why you gotta be stank on n──? You literally put on super expensive lotion. Act like it. Be kind.

Is this a newfound feeling?
I think I’ve always cared about wanting people to have a good impression of me. When I was younger, I wanted validation and shit. But I think, ultimately, it’s cool. It’s a sign of being emotionally accountable. I care about what other people think. I feel like this shit gets bashed a lot. Like, “Oh, this n── is seeking outside validation like that.” Maybe the reason why a lot of shit is fucked up is because people don’t care; you have to care a little. It’s humanitarian to read a room. I think I’ve always cared about people’s perception of me, even when I’ve retracted or learnt that the way that I want to interact with people is unsafe in an environment. Even when I had to be puffing up the exterior shit, that is still reading a room.

 Did that ever make you feel fake or like you’re not being yourself?
Nah, because it’s a commonality. It’s like learning a language, you know? I’m gonna speak it my way. It took a long time to figure out who I was in all of it.

Do you feel like you’ve figured it out now?
I’m always figuring it out. But I think I’ve been alive for long enough to have a repository of experiences that makes me more comfortable in being myself in different environments.

 I wanted to ask about your artistic evolution. I’m actually sitting in my old bedroom right now — the same place I was when Some Rap Songs came out — and it really carried me through that period of teenage confusion and angst. Listening to Live Laugh Love, it feels like a more grounded, peaceful space. It’s interesting to watch your growth while also noticing mine, but I think some of us (maybe me included) still aren’t ready to let go of that angst.
Bro, how could you? You were a baby and COVID happened and y’all just sat down in a weird place. And then you had to go outside and be normal. I’m keeping tabs, bro. I’m not being one of these old n── that don’t know what the kids have going on. Even the difference between y’all and the 21-year-olds. They’re so fucked. At least you could drink with your friends inside. These n── were at the house with their parents for two years trying to figure out masturbating and shit. These n── are fried. You guys have to save them.

Yeah, that’s true…
You remember the time when there was no 20v1s [a brain-rot-esque Z YouTube dating show]. Motherfuckers are younger than you are on 20v1s. It’s 16-year-old n──, who are like “I’m a high-value man.”

All the alpha male boys…  It’s a very interesting time to be on the internet for sure.
The way the internet existed for me, that shit seems like it’s pretty much dead.

You mean when it was a more democratic space with more reliable outlets?
Yeah, like the group’s biggest watering hole outlets. That’s gone.

There is a lot of nostalgia around the old ways of the internet right now, I feel.
I see that. My little cousin just got an iPhone 5.

 And brick phones are so back. Even better, I was just at a festival and people were literally taking videos with their Nintendos.
Y’all keep doing it! And just know with confirmation 100%…..

[This was quite an ironic timing for a technical glitch. The call cuts out, Earl vanishes from the screen, and never reappears. I hope he didn’t get into a car crash. Luckily, he didn’t, and a few days later, we picked up the conversation.]

 What I was getting at with my last question is that Live Laugh Love feels like a calmer, more centered chapter compared to your earlier work, which channeled that electricity of not having it figured out. Do you ever feel like peace risks being mistaken for… boring?
It’s boring if it’s like, “Guys, there’s no room for any dirt here. We’re tight and sterile here.” Then it’s boring because it’s not human, it’s not rich, it’s not dripping, it’s not bleeding, it’s not farting. I’m dealing with a lot of the same topics I always have, being alive in America, being a young Black man. And not just in the sense of being a victim of that system, but dealing with my own shadow, my own viciousness, my own anger. It’s not an empty message of positivity. I feel like n── are really sleeping on the live part of this shit, which is the first thing. I hope that before you could even laugh or love, you got to live. And that shit is crazy. I almost had to bring out two drumsticks and a whole drum set so I could brrm tss and say that live spelt backwards is evil, bruh. You’ve got to deal with some shit. That’s all living is.

Do you feel like you’ve reconciled some of the questions in your past from your earlier work? Was there any resolution with the album? The only resolution is just to worry about what you can worry about. And even worry is a silly word for it. It’s not a worry, it’s an investment in things that aren’t stupid, like connections with people. You can’t really call what’s going to happen, but there are a few things you can do to rest assured. I think that’s what the album ends with. Here’s some strength. Invest in it. Then you can be there for somebody else.

Some people hear this album as almost a B-side to Some Rap Songs, sonically and emotionally. Like a certain completion of a cycle, now that you create from a more healed perspective. Does that feel true to you?
I take it, but that wasn’t intentional. I learned that when someone important to me either dies or is born, I make albums that sound like that. That’s why they’re the same thing; they also each took three years. Some Rap Songs came with my father’s death. Live Laugh Love is for my kids. During Some Rap Songs, my mum said that to each birth is blood. By the third year, the album was done, but I had to take some time to grieve. I couldn’t even look at music. At some point, I knew I needed this shit to come out. My mom was like, “You’re really gestating something. To each birth is blood; this shit should be painful.” The first kid is the scariest shit of all time. Then Live Laugh Love, if it’s following in that lineage, is the second one. In the process, I looked up, and it was taking three years. I was like, “Oh, it’s you.” It’s this kind of album that’s showing up. I know you. I know this. Honestly, I feel like I’ve succeeded in art because if I feel that and people feel that too, we fucking did it. We’re looking at the same moon that I drew, and we all know it’s the moon. I fucking passed art school as I did it.

You can describe a tree through its beauty really well.
I feel like this one is not that big of a deal. It’s just here. I was just talking about this with my sister. In no way, shape, or form is a n── saying I’m bad at music or poetry. This is what I do. I love y’all. Here’s my thing. Let’s do it. Let’s stop sensationalising that and debating about whether it’s classic or trash. Is this guy a professional doctor? I get a prescription from him, I go to the pharmacy, and we move on with life.

In your press release, you were described as more of a philosopher than an artist with a nod to your Buddhist upbringing, which I found to be an interesting portrayal. How do you feel about it?
I view myself as annoying. I think a lot of annoying people have captured themselves in that word, philosophy. It means you be talking a lot when unsolicited. It means people are trying to chill, and you’d be like, “Nah, seriously…” I’m a rapper, though, on purpose, because then I can implement it. We are not in the old world any longer. My father used to say that we’re the last poets. There’s not really time for philosophy as we know it in the human brain anymore. You have to put a beat. We’re overstimulated. I’m overstimulated. I’ll take it, philosopher. I’ll read the book, but I’m going to just sit there and talk to people. I’m going to call that me being annoying and needing to learn how to not impose my opinions on others like they’re facts.

Ha-ha, I really appreciate the self-reflection here. But also, I think people are choosing to listen to you themselves. They’re coming to you. That’s a huge responsibility that I have to be very mindful of. What’s really cool, though, is bibliography. I think with all of the best thinkers or whatever, their bibliography is deep. It’s not about them n── coming with that information from themselves. It’s heavily referential. I got all n──’ raps in my head. That’s what academia is about. That’s what poetry, rap, philosophy are about. Committing others’ words to memory, cross-referencing your experience with as many different human experiences as you can, and then compiling them into one.

 The first song on the album talks about running and chasing. Do you feel like you’re still running from something or chasing something, or have you arrived at a point where that no longer applies?
I don’t know, man. For that song, I couldn’t decide between two takes and ended up splicing them together. That’s how fucking life feels. Someone’s like, “Where are you going? Stop running.” And then someone else is like, “You’ve got to go!” And then the same voice is tapping you on the head, turning, telling you to go over there. At the end of the day, it’s really just you and whatever you think. So be strong — because this n──, this comedian, this mischief man is about to tell you a lot of different things about what you need to do. And he’s kind of right about everything that he’s saying, so you can feel like shit about yourself. And the song ends with a call to activate, to go do some shit.

I’m getting a lot of mixed signals. Is there anything you’d like your audience to take away?
I come to the show, you don’t have to put your hands up for real, we’re chilling. I’m definitely not telling anyone how to live their life. Live, laugh, love are the only instructions.