Intersexy around the globe: DESIREE

To see DESIREE play is to witness movement in every sense – of sweating bodies, geographical borders, and sonic progressions. Born in Johannesburg and now spinning across the globe, she blends unconstrained influences from Afrohouse to techno and alternative rock in an experience that feels both rooted and fluid. Desiree’s sets are genre-crossing rituals, where every rhythm finds the body. Days away from the London debut of her event series, MMiNO (meaning music in her native Sepedi), we caught up with the DJ to talk about underrated genres from the African diaspora, activism for the intersex community, and what it means to build a scene where everyone is welcome. 

Hey, lovely to talk to you! How’s your day going?
I’m good, there’s a lot happening right now. Festival season is starting, and my schedule is getting more and more hectic. I have the MMiNO show this week in London, and planning your own event is very stressful… Sometimes I think to myself, “why am I doing this,” I can go play at a festival – plug, play, and leave. But building my own community and a space that truly resonates with me is worth all the stress.

Yeah, we don’t look for easy ways.
Exactly! 

Good luck with all the prep! Let’s start from the beginning – you’ve come so far in the last few years, and I’d love to reflect back with you on how your journey in music started and progressed.
I fell in love with house and electronic music when I was in university. I was a bit of a late bloomer: I was very disciplined when in high school, just focusing on my studies. I always loved music, but I wasn’t being rebellious and going out, trying to sneak into clubs etc. I started doing that when I went to university and I really fell in love with music as a raver. Because I was naturally a music collector of other genres, I started to do the same with house music. I started to develop my own taste and I would listen to other DJs and think “oh, I think I can do a better job”. That’s what led me to start exploring mixing and being a DJ. At first, it was something that I was toying around with in my room at uni, but because I was a raver and I already had a community in the Johannesburg scene, everyone already knew who I was because I was always there. So, when I started to DJ, I organically already had a support network. I couldn’t afford to get my own pair of CDJs or turntables, so I’d ask my local bars if I could practise while they were preparing for opening, and luckily I found one that allowed me to do that. Every Friday I would go there and practise – and it’s really wild for me to be here now, touring the world and doing something that I truly love.

It is wild, but also so deserved! Speaking of collecting music, I remember reading that you loved Radiohead growing up. That was quite unexpected to me, and I’m curious what drew you to those sounds initially and if you feel the impact of them now?
When I was a teenager my dream was to work in fashion. I would binge watch FashionTV in awe of all the runway shows, the production, and, most importantly, the music. I think that’s where I was introduced to different forms of electronic music for the first time: techno and all these genres that I wasn’t exposed to in my surroundings. I also discovered all these amazing bands like Radiohead, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds and many others through binge-watching these fashion shows. I find that when you’re a DJ and constantly exposed to dance-oriented music, it’s very important to give your ear a break. So I often go back and listen to those bands that I grew up loving. With my last EP, there’s a song there called Kulumanami and I decided to incorporate a live bass guitar as a leading bass line. I really loved the bass guitar in a lot of Radiohead songs, and thought it would be cool to draw inspiration from that and fuse it with Afrohouse. 

Fun! What else has shaped your musical proclivities in your upbringing and surroundings?
I grew up in a township in Johannesburg. It was, for lack of a better word, an impoverished area that is not necessarily very aesthetic, let’s say. But I went to a school in a suburb in a nicer area, so that contrast that I was exposed to on a daily basis really shaped me into a person that can easily adapt to different situations. And being in those two worlds also exposed me to different kinds of music. In the township, they were listening to more traditional South African, and broadly, African music. Whereas when I would go to school and I would be with my white friends, and they’d listen to Radiohead and so forth. I guess it prepared me to be flexible with my ear, musically. And I find that I do have an appetite for a wide variety of sounds. I’m very open-minded. I think it also reflects in a lot of my sets. People have branded me as an Afrohouse DJ, but if you ever hear me play, you will know that that’s not all I play.

It’s always a very nuanced question, but how do you feel about that label?
Ah, I’m a bit torn. I do play Afrohouse, and I think South Africa has played a pivotal role in bringing the sound to the world. It’s very important that South Africans are at the forefront of the genre because we don’t want another situation like with techno, where the originators of the sound are not given the credit. So for me, especially when I play internationally, it’s really important to champion the sound and be sort of an advocate because there are many artists from back home who are making this music, but maybe don’t necessarily have the platform that I have. So it’s really important for me to be bold and proud of the sound that comes from my country. But at the same time, it’s limiting because I do have other influences. It’s a bit of a catch-22 for me. In the Western world, I think also just by virtue of me being a black woman from South Africa who plays dance music, people automatically label it as Afro. Which is problematic because there are other genres coming out of the continent and out of South Africa. Not all dance music you hear that originally is from Africa is Afrohouse, but they like to lump us together.

Absolutely. What are some of your favourite genres coming out of South Africa or the African continent in general that you feel deserve more recognition?
We have Singeli from Tanzania, which is really cool and is gaining a lot of traction in Europe. In South Africa, we have Three Step, which is a beautiful fusion of Amapiano and Afrobeats. It’s characterised by this three-to-the-floor sound. We also have something which I like to label as South African deep house. The BPMs tend to be generally lower and it’s just more soulful. There’s a really cool label called Stay True Sounds that is putting out amazing South African deep house. Of course, we have Amapiano, which is really popular these days. And gqom, pioneered by the likes of DJ Lag, which is more of a hard-hitting sound. I see that in Europe and in America, a lot of people who listen to hard techno tend to enjoy gqom. I find it very interesting that this genre from Durban in South Africa is resonating with techno hits. But yeah, we have a lot of innovation coming out of the continent at the moment.

It is very exciting and my hope is that the more traction “Afrohouse” as an umbrella term gets, the more people will educate themselves and train their ear to differentiate those genres that are actually very pronounced.
Yeah, it is definitely happening. Of course it’s a slow process that will take some time, but it is happening more and more.

And you also travel a lot, a lot for your music –
– Too much, ha-ha. 

What has your experience of interacting with audiences from different parts of the world been like?
Sometimes it’s good, sometimes not so much. I think the problem right now is that “Afrohouse” is quite popular. And there is a certain perception of what Afrohouse is, which I do not necessarily resonate with. I don’t think that a lot of the music that people label as Afrohouse is Afrohouse. So because people by default view me as an Afrohouse DJ, sometimes I get to certain countries or a new city and I play what I think is Afrohouse, and people might be a bit disappointed because they’re expecting a certain sound that is trending on TikTok or whatever. I think it’s more of an Afrohouse sound that European producers have been inspired by and then made it into like their own thing. People are expecting that kind of sound sometimes, which is not necessarily my vibe. But of course, my responsibility as a DJ is to find a way of educating the crowd. I always try to draw inspiration from that sound that they’re used to and then slowly lead them in the right direction. It’s important to read the crowd and get them. And once you have them, give them the real shit. It’s really cool to see how people from different walks of life all over the world are responding to this music. I think it’s generally very positive and people are curious and are ready for fresh, new sounds on the dancefloor. And I think that’s why generally African electronic music has taken off in the last few years. People are appreciating that even though they might not necessarily understand it at the beginning, but if you dish it out to them well…

…you get to convert them! I also want to talk about the importance of using your platform to bring activism to the dancefloor. From your EP titled ‘Intersexy’ to donating a portion of the proceeds of your event series MMiNO to Intersex South Africa, you’ve always been very vocal about your identity.
As an intersex woman, I always felt like I don’t really fit into a lot of spaces, because intersex representation is just generally lacking. There has also been a lot of stigma and shame associated with being intersex. So it’s really important for me to be a mouthpiece for the community. I think by virtue of me not fitting into that gender binary that society drills into us, it opens up the conversation of gender and sexuality to people who do not necessarily want to engage in those issues. Me being born with XY chromosomes and then phenotypically being female challenges a lot of people that would naturally take a more conservative route with topics like that.

I imagine it then also triggers a certain chain reaction, by which other conservative beliefs are also challenged by extension.
Exactly. It then also opens up the space for others to also be included, like trans people. So, it’s really important for me to incorporate my identity into my work.

And… Looking forward to Thursday, tell me more about MMiNO! How has it originated and progressed?
South Africa has a very rich culture of music. It’s not a new thing. The world is just waking up to it now. Because of that, and because of its geography, a lot of the South African scene is in a bit of a bubble. What that does for someone like me, who is interested in other genres, it poses this challenge where you feel constrained. People just want you to play South African music and the type of sound you’re used to. When I started to DJ, I didn’t feel like I fully had the space to be myself, and play other genres from the diaspora next to the South African sounds. That’s what led me to creating MMiNO. I wanted to build a community that is curious and open to exploring different genres. MMino means music in my language, and it’s for people who are considered a bit eclectic or alternative in South Africa to have a platform where they can fully express themselves.
I also created it to combat this energy in South Africa that is very male-centric. Both behind the decks and in the audience. And I think it’s when you have a line-up of 20 cis men, anyone else wouldn’t feel represented or welcomed. I wanted to change that by changing the make-up of a line up. I want to have a diversity of DJs, both in terms of the demographic but also the genres that they play. I had never played for such a diverse crowd before starting Mmino, especially in Cape Town which is one of the most segregated places in South Africa, if not the world. If you put a magnifying glass on all the problems created by the apartheid regime in South Africa, Cape Town would be that place. But I want to bring people from all walks of life together. It’s a work in progress, and it’s not easy because all these biases and problems are very deeply rooted into South African society. 

It’s a beautiful mission, and change has to start somewhere. What does it feel like to bring MMiNO to London?
The reason why I decided to start with London outside of the South African context was because I felt like London is this melting pot of cultures, which Mino resonates with. Playing in London, I’ve always felt that I could be unapologetically eclectic.

And what can we expect?
You can expect a well-curated journey of African electronic music in its different shapes and forms. We have Hagen who draws a lot of inspiration from his Ghanaian roots and infuses high life and Afrobeats into electronic music. Then you have me, and then we end the night with Omar Ghorta who plays a much harder sound. It’s kind of like South African techno, let’s say. For me, this progression was really important because I find that a lot of the times when I go to parties, they play the same kind of sound throughout the night. I get really bored. 

Nice! It sounds like a beautiful manifestation of your experience and ethos of bridging things together. Not choosing one or existing in-between, but existing everywhere.
Exactly. Thank you!